Dennis Erlich developed an extensive knowledge of the Scientology religion in his role as "chief cramming officer" (quality control supervisor) at Flag, the Scientology base in Clearwater, FL. For more information about Erlich, see Ron Newman's page on Church of Scientology vs. Dennis Erlich, Tom Klemesrud, and NETCOM.
In March 1996, Erlich engaged in a lengthy discussion on ARS (alt.religion.scientology) of the roles of demonic possession and exorcism in the Scientology belief system. Those messages are reproduced below. Note: Erlich uses "Oat Tee" as a pun on OT (Operating Thetan). Hubbard is often referred to as Tubby, The Phatard, or The Phatman. He plays a number of other linguistic jokes throughout, e.g., "toadly" is a corruption of "totally".
Faithful Reader,
One of the main things that the scienos do not want known about
their disgusting little scam cult of greed and power, is the
major roll demonic possession and occult exorcism plays in the
bait-and-switch fraud.
If you would be so kind as to assist me in creating a thread of
dialogue which focuses directly on this, I will endeavor to
reveal the twisted intricacies of Oat Tea Levels 3 to 7. These
levels constitute a major percentage of the hundreds of thousands
of dollars in "fixed donations" charged for going up the levels
to Oat Tea (godhood).
As they say, let's, "Take a bite outta crime!"
I have no intention of violating the vague (and perhaps even
unconstitutional) injunction not to exceed "fair use" of the
Sakrid Droppings of the cult in my preachings.
With your help we can pry the lid the rest of the way off the
stinking can of worms known as scientololgy, and allow the social
infection to drain away. (you should excuse the mixed metaphor)
The world will be a better place.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
<dennis.l.erlich@support.com>
<inForm@primenet.com>
2. Compatibility with Other Religions (Ted Mayett)
On 18 Mar 1996 18:20:02 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
This thread is part of the ongoing debate on ars regarding the
claim that, according to Whimpersnapper and other cult
propagandists, scienotology is compatible with all other
religions. It is not so. The following should prove it
conclusively.
Ted Mayett <teddy@skylink.net> wrote:
>Does everyone have the same number of demons posessing them?
No. According to Tubby the number varies into the hundreds of
thousands.
He says in NOTs Series 1 (Oat Tea Level 4):
"They're like pebbles on a beach. Anyway, the EP of OT III
gives only an apparency that all BTs and clusters are gone. [...]
If you don't ever want to run into any more BTs or clusters, well
you'd better go find some universe where they don't exist. [...]
But listen, you're living in a universe which is crawling with
this type of stuff. And planet Earth was a dumping ground to end
all dumping grounds. "
You audit for many hundreds of hours on Oat Tea 3 until you
can't find any more of the little critters on your body no matter
how hard you try to delude yourself into seeing them. At that
point you can attest and write a success story about how
wonderful it is not to be possessed by the evil little demons any
longer, how they were ruining your life, giving you bad thoughts
and generally cramping your style.
Then, you get to go on to NOTs (OT 4-7) where you find out that
you have hundreds of thousands *more* of them in your body that
you never even knew about. By the time you've audited them for
several hundred hours and paid hundreds of thousands of dollars
to exorcise the demons your didn't know you had to begin with,
you are read to gobble down whatever kind of bullsh*t the scienos
feed you.
>The concept of God is share by different religions.
There is no concept of God in the scieno cult. You are not
lead to God, but rather away, in the direction of the occult and
dealing with familiar spirits. (as noted by Tubby above) This
activity is seriously discouraged in all Judeo/Christian
religions.
A recent survey shows that the only "religion" held in lower
esteem by the American public than the scienos are atheists. It
also showed that the scienos had the highest percentage of "don't
know" answers of any religion in the survey.
It seems to me that if the public realized the scienocult was
not only atheist, but also practiced occult exorcism, their
bait-and-switch religion would be universally held in contempt,
just as they well deserve to be.
>Are there any other cults, beside Scientology,
>that exorcise these demons?
Yes. Exorcism is practiced by shaman all over the world. It
is also practiced rarely in some mainstream religions; under very
unusual circumstances. I understand that a Catholic priest must
get permission to use the name of God or Jesus Christ to command
the demonic entity to depart. The movie THE EXORCIST (which was
banned for scienos) gives a somewhat stylized accounting of how
permission for an exorcism is gained in the Catholic Church.
Exorcism, however, is never performed without calling on the
Deity for authority, except in occult, godless practices like the
scieno kult.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
3. Relevance of "Fair Use" Doctrine in these Discussions (Zane Thomas)
On 18 Mar 1996 18:20:03 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
>zthomas@pacific.telebyte.net (Zane Thomas) wrote:
>dennis.l.erlich@support.com wrote:
>
>>Faithful Reader,
>
>>One of the main things that the scienos do not want known about
>>their disgusting little scam cult of greed and power, is the
>>major roll demonic possession and occult exorcism plays in the
>>bait-and-switch fraud.
>[snip]
>>I have no intention of violating the vague (and perhaps even
>>unconstitutional) injunction not to exceed "fair use" of the
>>Sakrid Droppings of the cult in my preachings.
>
>Dennis,
>
>Sounds like a great idea. As you know I never got far enough
>up (down?) in the cult to see the serious shit as practiced, I
>only saw the results as expressed through crazed SO members.
>
>I have no doubt that you can 'splain things to us without quoting a
>single fucking word from the Trade Sekrits, and naturally I
>would encourage you to handle it that way. If you quote so
>much as a single sentence you will, as you know, read about it
>later in court. However due to the wide availability of Oat Tea
>(courtesy of the justice of the Dutch legal system) references could
>be used I suppose; I'd talk to the mighty mofo about doing that though
>since they will be having to 'splain it in court later.
>
>Zane
I believe that I understand Fair Use and intend to use my
rights under the First Amendment to preach as I see fit.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
4. Audited vs. Solo Use of NOTs (Dave Touretzky)
On 19 Mar 1996 09:35:01 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
>dst+@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
>Dennis, could you please explain to us the self-exorcism experience that
It's not all solo audited. Oat Tea Levels 4-6 are audited by a
NOTs auditor who selectively gets the chump to "mock-up" (delude
himself into thinking there are) body thetans and clusters of
various persuasions. Some think they're body parts. As the
scienos say, the entities are "in the valence of" various things,
concepts, etc. Some are in the valence of copies of the other's
pictures. (head spinning yet?)
For the first 3 Oat Tea levels of NOTs, (4-6) there is an
auditor "helping" the chump find the critters. He indicates it
if he sees a reaction on the e-meter. It's all very hypnotic and
the chump has been conditioned for hundreds of hours before
entering the exorcism session.
>OT3-7 candidates construct for themselves, following the instructions
>in the SekRiT sKrIpTuReZ?
In the first exorcism experience, Oat Tea 3, the chump has just
read, in Tubby's own hand, the super-sekrit instructions you seen
in the fishman docs. Ie. "The head of the galactic
confederation ...." doc. He has just paid, say, $12000 to find
this out.
Now he is supposed to go sit in a solo session for the first
time, hold both cans in one hand, and find pressure spots on his
body. When he finds such a spot, it will read on the meter. He
is to assume it is a body thetan or cluster of body thetans. He
is to "intend" the BeeTee to the beginning of Incident 2 (75
million years ago), and then "intend" entity through the
incident, over and over, dianetic style. At some point the
pressure feeling will go away. He is to assume this is a BT or
cluster "blowing". The meter will react accordingly.
>How long does it take for someone who's just
>read OT3 to get to the point where they believe this shit and start trying
>to make mental contact with their body thetans?
Often the same day. The person was given his OT3 pack to take
home and have to refer to during the audit. He was supposed to
audit for weeks until all the pesky little body thetans were all
gone.
If you look back in this thread to my quote of NOTs 1, you will
see that according to Tubby, the body thetans are never all gone.
>What's it like to feel your first BT blow?
Exactly like tasting your first imaginary ice cream cone. Mmm,
mmm good!
>Does the BT ever communicate with the PC? ("I'm melting! I'm melting!") Are
>they good conversationalists?
Yes and no.
Yes, body thetans, or "fleas" as tek-trained people call them,
are often fully communicating with the chump. In fact the
thoughts going on in his head, especially if they are critical of
scientology, are all coming from the body thetans who are
thinking them. (twisted enough for you?)
And no, they are poor conversationalists. If they become too
vocal and demand chaplin's courts or want their host chump's
money back, the chump is deemed, by the case supervisor, to be
having a psychotic break. He is locked up and held against his
will, til he comes to his senses or is "off-loaded" as a psych
case.
>When you attest to having reached the state of OT3, how does the C/S
>verify that this is true?
Oh, they have ways to tell if you are only faking. <nyahaha>
You are required to write a success story, exactly what you got
outta the exorcisms. You must really believe something happened
(besides the rape of your mind) before you can attest to the
level. FREEDOM FROM OVERWHELM; you will never be overwhelmed
again.
They verify that you really believe it's true by getting you to
pay for your next level. If you won't, you false attested.
1, 2, 3, delusion. It's simple really.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
5. Interjection (Arnaldo Lerma)
On 23 Mar 1996 16:49:02 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
alerma@dgsys.com (alerma) wrote:
> I also have and HAD to intention of violating the volumous
> interpretations of 'fair use', and wish to join
> in discussion.
You low-life copyright terrorist, you. That's just your Evil
Body Thetans with False Purposes talking. You, your own self,
want to roll over and give up your constitiutional rights to the
thug-kult.
I know you do, Arnaldo.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
6. Can a Thetan Audit Himself until He Blows? (Keith Cochran)
On 24 Mar 1996 21:06:02 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
>janda@netcom.com (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) wrote:
>[Note for new readers: The "demons" are Body Thetans (BT's), the souls
>of people which cling to your body. They got into this state because
>75,000,000 years ago, the Galactic Overlord Xenu captured a whole bunch
>of people, transported them to Earth (teegack), threw them in volcanos,
>and then dropped nukes on them. OTIII is the "point" in the cult of
>scientology where you find this little bit of information out. And
>EP is "end-point", the point where you have succeeded in deluding yourself
>that you have exorcised all the delusionary BT's that you deluded yourself
>into thinking were infesting your body.]
Extremely succinct and accurate summary of Oat Tea 3 .
>Dennis, has anbody ever blown themselves during OTIII?
Very good question, Keith.
>Er, let me
>rephrase that: A body thetan is just a thetan that cannot hold
>onto a meat body by itself.
Usually clusters of thetans have a "leader". This leader may
be "the person himself". Or the whole cluster may be the
"person" running the body.
>I am a thetan.
If it true for you, Keith.
>I have body thetans.
Yuck. Get the flea powder.
>When I find a body thetan, I run them on Incident II (the volcano
>stuff I mentioned above) until they "blow", and leave me, never to
>return.
Yes. You are actually "clearing" them of their reactive mind
and they go off and live useful, productive lives as butterflies
or some such.
>How does a person running OTIII tell the difference between "me" (I
>am a thetan), and "them" (these are body thetans)?
It's the "thetan in charge" that gets the others to leave. If
you are the one *doing* the auditing, then you are the "you"
running your body. If you are the one *being* audited, then you
are just a body thetan.
>I suppose OTI (The current version of OTI consists of a single statement,
>"spot a thetan") takes care of most of that, becasue it splits thetans
>out into the "spotter" thetan, and the "spottee" thetan, right?
Exactly. If you got spotted, then you're just a BT.
>> Then, you get to go on to NOTs (OT 4-7) where you find out that
>>you have hundreds of thousands *more* of them in your body that
>>you never even knew about. By the time you've audited them for
>>several hundred hours and paid hundreds of thousands of dollars
>>to exorcise the demons your didn't know you had to begin with,
>>you are read to gobble down whatever kind of bullsh*t the scienos
>>feed you.
>
>Hear, hear. Even deluding yourself into believing that you can talk
>to trees.
>
>>>The concept of God is share by different religions.
>>
>> There is no concept of God in the scieno cult. You are not
>>lead to God, but rather away, in the direction of the occult and
>>dealing with familiar spirits. (as noted by Tubby above) This
>>activity is seriously discouraged in all Judeo/Christian
>>religions.
>
>Actually, being an OT and beliving in the Lord is a _High Crime_,
>as we note from _Introduction to Scientology Ethics_, ISBN 0-88404-015-1,
>Copyright (1951, 1968, 1973) by L. Ron Hubbard, page 52:
>
> "8. Dependency on other mental or philosophic procedures than
> Scientology (except medical or surgical) after certification,
> classification, or award."
Precisely so, Keith.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
7. Hubbard's Cosmology (William Barwell)
On 24 Mar 1996 21:06:02 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
wbarwell@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (William Barwell) wrote:
>Well, I guess a good place to start is to ask for a basic set of terms.
Yes, good start.
>Thetan,
Scienos think the soul is the same as the person, himself.
They call the soul of an entity, the thetan. You are all
thetans. And so are the hundreds of thousands of entities that
make up your Reactive Mind and inhabit your body along with you.
>BTs,
Body Thetans are entities that are attached to your body. They
are what make up the Reactive Mind. But Hubbard doesn't tell you
this until OT4.
Clusters are "clumps" of body thetans that think they are one
thetan. They all went through the same incident and so got stuck
together. An example of a "mutual incident" would be a train
wreck. All those who died at the same time can become a cluster
of body thetans and think they are one thetan. They can attach
themselves to anyone and thus become part of a person's reactive
mind.
"The Reactive Mind is composed of body thetans and clusters.
That is all." - LRH on Class 12 Tape 2.
>ect.
See other posts on thread.
>And a basic cosmology.
According to Tubbard, the physical universe is composed of lies
and alterations. If a thetan could see a thing "as-is", without
the lies or alterations, the physical object would vanish. As
more an more thetans began to alter things, the universe became
more and more solid.
Thetans "created themselves" from the mass of theta (general
life force). This is sometimes called "the static". It is the
pre-causal state of life; undifferentiated life. It has/had the
ability to postulate (wish for things) and perceive. But since
space didn't exist, it had to create space and things to perceive
to have a game. It extended points and these points, altered,
became the "stuff" of the physical universe. More points, more
alteration, more solidity.
>When did BTs first come about? Clusters?
Although he referred to a couple of cluster-making, mutual
incidents before Incident 2 (the 75 million year ago, h-bomb on
the volcanos with 36 days of bad movie implants of god, the
devil, jesus, etc.) the real info on body thetans begins there.
After the explosions of the volcanos, thetans were trapped by
electronic ribbons above the blasts, transported to Las Palmas
and Hawaii, and "packaged" into clusters. According to Tubby,
the assembly line ran right down the main street of Las Palmas.
>What are the basic claims that Hubbard made here?
On OT 3, if you exorcise all the bt's and clusters you will be
free from overwhelm. On NOTs (OT4-7), if you exorcise the *rest*
of the unconscious ones you missed on OT3 you will attain the end
result of "transparent body".
>What are the basic sources that tell of these things?
The grade chart tells the "ability gained" on those levels.
the NOTs material in Scamizdat gives most of the picture of the
rest of the OT Levels.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
8. "Placing Intentions" on Body Thetans and Enemies ("Ceon Ramon")
On 24 Mar 1996 21:07:02 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
ceon@u.washington.edu (Ceon Ramon) wrote:
>Dennis, there's a question I've wanted to ask for a long time. In fact, I
>thought I had asked it, but I never got a response from anyone.
>
>My question is about the term "placing intentions." Some Scientology
>representative posted about this, and I thought it sounded exactly like
>placing a curse on another human being, kind of like Ju-ju or black magic.
>
>What does "placing intentions" mean?
There are a number of places in scieno tek where placing
intentions comes into play. During Upper Indoctrination TRs
(6-9) the person is drilled on placing his intention into an
ashtray and into a body. He is trained to manually enforce his
commands if the ashtray or body does not comply. The definition
of Tone 40 is "intention without reservation or limit". It is
used to train the person to respond to other's commands as well
as to get other's to respond to his.
Another technique that uses this is in the auditing of Body
Thetans. One places the intention into them for them to return
to the beginning of Incident 2 and to move through the incident.
This is like BT engram running using intention.
On L12 is where the real data on "placing intention" comes into
play. On the "beams" step, one traces down intentions (beams of
energy) that have been exerted by enemies against one. These
beams are exactly equivalent to the spells and curses cast in
black magyk. The chump is asked to locate and send the beam back
to the person putting it on him.
The main use of intention is to control others and to train the
mark to be used to and accept control himself. There is a C-org
Command Drill which trains officers and missionaires to be able
to command in an authoritative and threatening voice. This is
the most typical use.
But then most of the scieno tek is like spiritual martial art.
>Thanks, Dennis,
My pleasure, Barbara.
>--Barbara
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
9. Psychosis on OT Levels; The "Thetan Hand" Technique ("emerald")
On 24 Mar 1996 21:07:02 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
emerald@alpha.c2.org wrote:
>From your experience, can you estimate what percentage of people doing
>OT 3 through 7 experience dramatically negative results (nervous
>breakdowns, suicides)?
I'm sure a significant number of scienos have left and no
longer take scieno services after finding out the bit about Body
Thetans and being made to try to exorcise them. No question in
my mind that well over 50% of those who made it to OT simply to
find out that they were cohabitating in their bodies with
thousands of other beings, left the cult and never took another
service.
>Didn't Hubbard originally *expect* a certain
>percentage of people not to survive OT 3?
I don't recall any such statement. But he did say that
mis-auditing or revealing the OT3 story could kill people. "It's
like walking through a mine-field."
>Human Emotion & Reaction (HE&R) was something Hubbard liked to sneer
>at. Did he claim that emotions were implanted,
Nearly everything wrong with humans was implanted in Incident
2, 75 million years ago.
>or were the result of having body thetans?
AND were the result of having body thetans.
>Or did he just not like the way they
>interfered with people being good little clambots?
Getting people to create demons and pay for them to be
exorcised by billion-year contracted slaves is what is known as a
low-overhead scam.
>Can you explain the "thetan hand" technique? Is this done in a solo
>session, or is there an auditor instructing the OT-wannabe on what to
>do?
It's a NOTs (OT4-7) procedure where, on a particularly
unresponsive, dead or otherwise poorly delusioned body thetan,
the chump is instructed to "mock up" (that is create in his
mind) an energy hand and to scoop up the body thetan with it and
simply fling the BT away. Using an imaginary hand to get rid of
an imaginary demon works well, however it does not cause the body
thetan to become clear, as does the running of Incident 2 or the
"What are you/who are you?" NOTs technique.
Hope this helps.
>emerald@alpha.c2.org
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
10. Locating "Presure Spots" in Solo NOTs Auditing (Keith Spurgeon)
On 25 Mar 1996 09:25:01 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
Spurgeon@is2.nyu.edu (Keith Spurgeon) wrote:
>Thanks for this exercise, Dennis. It is most helpful.
"I always do try to be helpful, but sometimes I only manage to
be irritating." - anon
Me:
>> Now he is supposed to go sit in a solo session for the first
>>time, hold both cans in one hand, and find pressure spots on his
>>body. When he finds such a spot, it will read on the meter.
Keith:
>Do you mean the bridge-crosser touches all over his/her body with one
>hand, and watches the meter for readings?
No. No physical contact with the body.
>Or does he/she go to places
>with some sort of "disruption," press there, and look to see if the
>meter reads?
If you mean does he exteriorize and go to the point on his body
where the pressure is, no.
>In short, what is the procedure for finding these "pressure
>spots?"
The novice exorcist *mentally* passes his attention over (and
through) his body, comes to a place in the body where there seems
to be a "presence" (pressure, etc) and checks to see if it
responds on the e-meter at the same time.
>And what sort of reading does one expect?
Usually a fall (needle moves to right on the dial, indicating a
lessening of resistance through the chump's body) or a blowdown
(of the Tone Arm). Both of these reactions indicate a charged
(sic) area which is confrontable to the mark.
>> They verify that you really believe it's true by getting you to
>>pay for your next level. If you won't, you false attested.
>
>So you aren't OT3 until you pay for OT4?
You are a suspect for the crime of False Attesting until you
pay for your next level, yes.
>keith
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
11. Interjection (Dean Benjamin)
On Wed, 27 Mar 1996 15:46:06 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
drb@cs.cmu.edu (Dean Benjamin) wrote:
>Your series of articles on the theological and ritualistic details of
>NOTS is fascinating. Unbelievable that anyone buys the mythology, let
>alone pays wads of *money* for the privilege!
By the time the chump gets to that point, he has long since
given up his ability to question or protest.
>I'm archiving this series, and eagerly await future installments. You
>don't, perchance, have the first post you made (where you invited
>readers to initiate the dialogue)? I didn't save it, and now it's
>expired at my site.
I've placed it below.
>If you'd like me to do a "news assist" (by asking a particular
>question in a.r.s) to further the series, just send me a note.
Homie don't play dat. If you have a question, ask it.
If no one is interested in the role exorcism plays in the
rip-off, bait-and-switch, I'll let the thread drop. But I
periodically bring up the subject because 1) it is the most major
thing that the scienos don't want known, and 2) it is the part of
the scam that makes the most money, and 3) it is the one thing,
which if known by the general public, would allow the the cult to
die a "natural death" instead of going up in flames when the
authorities finally have to demand entrance.
>Thanks for everything. I count you among my moral heroes for putting
>so much on the line for your principles.
"When y'ain't got nothin', y'ain't got nothin' to lose." - B.
Dylan
>-- Dean
>[posted & mailed]
Same.
[repeat of initial post deleted -- editor]
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
12. Thetan Hand Technique and Clay Tables (William Barwell)
On Wed, 27 Mar 1996 16:08:46 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
wbarwell@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (William Barwell) wrote:
emerald@alpha.c2.org wrote:
>>>Can you explain the "thetan hand" technique? Is this done in a solo
>>>session, or is there an auditor instructing the OT-wannabe on what to
>>>do?
Me:
>> It's a NOTs (OT4-7) procedure where, on a particularly
>>unresponsive, dead or otherwise poorly delusioned body thetan,
>>the chump is instructed to "mock up" (that is create in his
>>mind) an energy hand and to scoop up the body thetan with it and
>>simply fling the BT away. Using an imaginary hand to get rid of
>>an imaginary demon works well, however it does not cause the body
>>thetan to become clear, as does the running of Incident 2 or the
>>"What are you/who are you?" NOTs technique.
Pope:
>I just mocked up an energy hand throwing away all my BTs, clusters, and
>implants and I feel much better now.
Now you have a delusional cure for a delusional malady. Hell,
you don't even need a bottle for this kinda snake-oil.
>The SubGenius one minute OTI - OTVIII course.
SubGenii Levels are beyond anything the scienos could dream of
attaining.
>Anything else I need to throw way with my mocked up energy hand?
This is similar to the occult use of Clay Tables all through
the indoctrination, but especially on the KTL Course. (see
recent thread on KTL and LOC)
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
13. Interjection (Vincent Johnson)
On Fri, 29 Mar 1996 04:00:06 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
Vincent Johnson <vjohnson@psyber.com> wrote:
>Hey, Denny:
*Mister* Erlich to you, cult-boy.
>Your problem is you think you are Dennis L. Erlich.
... and not a seething ball of Body Thetans and clusters, eh?
>Sorry to stick you with this.
Stick me with what, Jerk?
>Bad Bob
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
14. What Happens to Body Thetans after They "Blow"? ("Paper Tiger")
On Sat, 30 Mar 1996 17:08:33 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
papertiger@alpha.c2.org (Paper Tiger) wrote:
> I have a question about Body Thetans.
Somehow, that's not surprising to me.
>After ridding oneself of
> these noxious vermin, they are supposedly rehabilitated, yes?
Yes and no. They are "clear" once they blow, except if you use
the "thetan hand" tek to get rid of them. But even the clear
ones are merely "cleared cannibals" and "degraded beings".
You see, they have not yet had scieno-tek training. So they
are still in a lower condition. Probably Confusion.
>You
> said something about them wandering off to become butterflies and
> such and I got to wondering.
Each of the little buggers has its own little reactive mind,
which was implanted during R6, 75 million years ago.
By running them on Incident 2 (on Oat Tea 3) you dianetically
(spit) erase the implant and hence their retractive mind. On
NOTs (OT 4-7) they are supposed to go back into "valence" (ie.
assume their own identity after thinking they were something else
for so long. Theoretically, a thetan who is "in-valence" cannot
be anything but clear. At least that's what chumps below OT3 are
told. After that, it is explained that their "out-of-valence" is
caused by the Body Thetan's thoughts.
Interesting note: The condidtion of confusion has a formula -
FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE. The auditing question you ask your demons
on NOTs to blow BTs and Clusters is "Who are you?"
> Does this mean that they're no longer degraded beings and can pick
> up a body if they desire, or are they still second-class souls?
I would say that there is probably a "gradient" of degradation.
Some might be able to run a butterfly body (they are light, their
thetans can be kicked out and their bodies are easily controlled)
> Alternatively, does it mean that they're now no longer a problem
> and won't go off to parasitize another Thetan?
No. Absolute not. Being "cleared cannibals" they could do a
lot more damage on their own, misguided volition.
> Either of these have interesting consequences. It would mean that
> to Clear the World the COS doesn't have to Clear every person on
> Earth, they simply have to rehabilitate every Body Thetan on Earth
> once, and then Clear every Thetan once
No. The reactive mind can easily be mocked up again. It's like
going back to chain-smoking. The habit is there.
>(I assume if you die while
> Clear you come back Clear, at least if no Body Thetans are around
> to drag you back down into MEST). As there are a finite and
> non-increasing number of both, the World will eventually be Clear
> even though the COS can only work through a small number a year
> (and as the number of Body Thetans decreases, Clearing the Thetan
> becomes easier and easier).
No. Snot true.
> Did I go wrong anywhere?
Trying to understand da' Phattman :)
> ** Paper Tiger (SP3, LFDoX)
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
15. Hypnotic Suggestion; Body Thetans, Exorcism, and Christianity (Iain Brown)
On Sat, 30 Mar 1996 17:08:37 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
Iain Brown <iain@aint.com> wrote:
>Rev. Dennis L Erlich wrote:
Call me Dennis, Ian.
>> If no one is interested in the role exorcism plays in the
>> rip-off, bait-and-switch, I'll let the thread drop. But I
>> periodically bring up the subject because 1) it is the most major
>> thing that the scienos don't want known, and 2) it is the part of
>> the scam that makes the most money, and 3) it is the one thing,
>> which if known by the general public, would allow the the cult to
>> die a "natural death" instead of going up in flames when the
>> authorities finally have to demand entrance.
Ian:
>I'm certainly interested, though even after months of lurking here I
>don't understand enough of the obfuscating jargon to ask intelligent
>questions.
Toadly understandable that you don't.
>When you say 'exorcism', is this the same rite that
>scientologists perform to remove 'body thetans'?
Precisely. There are several occult techniques they use.
On OT3: Locate pressure on the body. Intend the BT or cluster
through Incident Too & Juan.
On NOTs: Thetan hand, What are you/Who are you.
On L12: Date/locate the incident, neutralize the beam
Lower level auditing: On the L12 tape Phatso says that all
lower level auditing is just used to blow Body Thetans. The
Pre-god is just not aware it's not "his" aberration. Tubby said
"The Reactive Mind is entirely composed of BTs and Clusters."
>Could you describe the
>procedures for doing this?
As above. If you want more details, ask specifically.
>What is the mental condition of the
>participant before, during and after these procedures?
Before: brainwashed zombie. During: hypnotic trance. After:
brainwashed zombie who has deluded himself into thinking he is a
god.
>From what I have gleaned here, I am convinced that the process of
>'auditing' is an attempt to induce a hypnotic state in the individual.
It's more than an attempt. As the scienos are so fond of
trumpeting: IT WORKS!
>If an individual under hypnosis is convinced that he or she is possessed
>by a large number of independent entities, whether 'demons' or 'body
>thetans', I would not be surprised if this were to result in paranoia,
>or even schizophrenia or other psychosis in a susceptible individual.
>Would you care to comment on this?
The paranoia, schizophrenia are INDUCED by the programming.
The chump is given and must adopt completely, a whole new model
of his mind and psyche. These new patterns of perception,
thought and action *directly induce* the conditions you describe
above. I call it Scieno-psychosis.
>(During one episode of high stress during my college days I imagined
>that I could feel worms crawling under my skin. I don't know if this is
>the condition that Diane described a few months back, but it was a very
>frightening time. If that can be the result of simple stress, I hate to
>think what could happen with stress induced under hypnosis by
>inexperienced practitioners.)
Just like Fishman, you could be induced to do things you would
never conceive of otherwise; if not suggested by the Authority
you submitted your mind to.
>Would you also comment on this following aspect of posession, which I
>think is somewhat tangential to your original comments?
Have I ever failed to inForm?
>I believe the claims of compatibility of Scientology and Christianity
>(and other monotheistic religions) have been pretty completely debunked
>here.
You'd think so, right.
>Most religions, including Christianity, acknowledge some form of
>demonic posession.
Some do, yes.
>If I were to approach my minister and inform him that
>in the absence of any Christian minister monitoring the procedure, I had
>identified, communicated with, and eliminated hundreds of spirits
>inhabiting my body, I would expect him to be horrified. I would expect
>at a minimum that he would recommend counselling; I would expect him to
>believe that I was involved in occult practises incompatible with
>Christianity, and (depending on whether or not he believes in demonic
>posession as a literal fact) I would think it likely that he would
>believe that I have opened myself up to demonic influences, and may now
>truly be in need of exorcism.
Exactly so. And he'd be right. It does open one up to all
sorts of undesirable influences. If it didn't, the scienos would
have nothing to sell you.
>This premise may be of little or no interest to most ars participants,
I think it's fascinating, the convolutions the scienos have to
put each other through to achieve godhood. <spit>
>but given that Scientologists continue to maintain that Scientology is
>compatible with Christianity, I would suggest that presenting this
>aspect of Scientology procedure to theologians of most conventional
>religions would result in extremely strong condemnation of the cult's
>practises. Would you like to offer any insight into this?
I have absolutely no doubts that you are correct. That is
exactly why I am here inForming.
>Incidentally, I have been wondering just exactly what is the best
>strategy for doing what you're doing here. Scientology is a dangerous
>and destructive cult. That is clear from what we read here, from both
>the con- and pro-Scientologists. The clearest condemnations of
>Scientology come from their own words; the HCOPLs and the OTs.
This is precisely what I know to be true.
>Since the
>cult presents itself as a religion with high ideals and your best
>interest at heart, we need a way to show that this is not the case, and
>that mode of operation really is 'bait and switch', where the lethal and
>corrupt practises are hidden from the victim until he or she is unable
>to resist.
Very well put.
>Since the cult denies us use of the materials that can
>demonstrate this, we need a body of information on the cult's practises
>which are not directly derived from the copyrighted materials. Your
>first-hand experience is an excellent source of this information. I hope
>you will continue to be able to enlighten us -- and that perhaps some
>other former Scientologists can help us to acquire facts in the same
>way.
I'd not invite others out on this limb. But if they want to
help me delve into the bait-and-switch fraud and how it works in
relation to demonic possession, I would certainly be in their
debt.
Thanks for the incisive questions and comments. This is what I
came to the newsgroup seeking.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
16. Casting Spells and "Neutralizing the Beam" on L12 ("emerald")
On Sun, 31 Mar 1996 18:41:07 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
emerald@alpha.c2.org wrote:
Iain Brown <iain@aint.com> wrote:
>>>When you say 'exorcism', is this the same rite that
>>>scientologists perform to remove 'body thetans'?
Me:
>> Precisely. There are several occult techniques they use.
>> On OT3: Locate pressure on the body. Intend the BT or cluster
>>through Incident Too & Juan.
>> On NOTs: Thetan hand, What are you/Who are you.
Emerald:
>There's recently been a lot of interest in the NOTS bulletins.
That's where the profits are. Hours and hours of exorcising
Body Thetans at $350-1200 per hour.
>Some of
>them, which describe the thetan hand and "What are you? Who are you?"
>techniques, have appeared on the net.
Courtesy of Nobody@replay.com, back in Dec. 1994
>Is there anything of interest in those NOTS bulletins that haven't yet
>made it to the net? Or is it just more of the same?
Many. Martin Hunt posted a list. It is probably far from
complete.
>> On L12: Date/locate the incident, neutralize the beam.
>
>Neutralize the beam?!? Can you expand on this?
L12 has a major step which utilizes the occult practice of
casting spells/evil-eye/etc. - beams. Tubbo asserted there were
"energy beams" which could transmit bad intentions through the
airwaves and cause various undesirable conditions in one's
enemies. (note: this is the often-observed, patented Scieno
Deathstare(tm).) These beams would "restim" (restimulate/key-in)
people's body thetans.
By locating the effects of these beams on one's body and mind,
and then sending the beam back to the person sending it, or
sending another kind neutralizing beam, throwing the beam off and
various other tekniques, one could throw off the spell and blow
the BT's affected with the bad vibes.
He talked about such "carrier waves" and "standing waves" all
through the tek. But the chumps don't get to find out about it
until they are thoroughly indoctrinated and paid the $15,000+ to
purchase the "spiritual level" of L12.
>emerald@alpha.c2.org
I've enjoyed your presence on ars.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
17. More on Casting Spells (Iain Brown)
On Sun, 31 Mar 1996 23:15:05 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
Iain Brown <iain@aint.com> wrote:
Me:
>> >> On L12: Date/locate the incident, neutralize the beam.
Iain:
>> >Neutralize the beam?!? Can you expand on this?
>>
>> L12 has a major step which utilizes the occult practice of
>> casting spells/evil-eye/etc. - beams. Tubbo asserted there were
>> "energy beams" which could transmit bad intentions through the
>> airwaves and cause various undesirable conditions in one's
>> enemies. (note: this is the often-observed, patented Scieno
>> Deathstare(tm).) These beams would "restim" (restimulate/key-in)
>> people's body thetans.
>
>What's the procedure one would use to send an intention?
Same as with any intention in the scieno-tek. You squint up
your eyes, tighten up your sphincter and delude yourself into
believing you did it.
>Can one also send good intentions?
Not ever mentioned in the Droppings.
>Other than making the sender look like he's suffering from a brain-fart,
>do these intention beams seem to have any effect on the sender or
>receiver?
They make the sender think he's actually doing something. But
their purpose is to make the receiver become ill or go insane.
It's in the tek.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
18. The Nature of Body Thetans: Evil or Stupid? Real or Symbolic? (Rex Basterfield)
On Mon, 01 Apr 1996 04:01:23 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
101334.2733@compuserve.com (Rex Basterfield) wrote:
Me:
>> One of the main things that the scienos do not want known about
>> their disgusting little scam cult of greed and power, is the
>> major roll demonic possession and occult exorcism plays in the
>> bait-and-switch fraud.
Rex:
>Are the famous Body Thetans actually supposed to be malevolent?
No more or less so than any other thetan whose evil intentions,
overts and implants have caused him to "pull-in" (karmically)
being in the state where they don't have enough power even to run
a flea-body.
>Or just spirits stunned into stupidity so far they don't know what day
>it is?
That too. But they obviously "pulled it in".
>If we make a wrong move with these OT materials could we excite a BT
>into some serious action?
Yes. El Rotundo said that if you excite or enliven one of
these BTs or Clusters you can die of pnemonia becuase of the
restimulation. It's *their* reactive minds that you audit and
they can actually take over your thoughts and actions and kick
"you" (at least who you think you are) out of your body and take
over.
Yahaha.
>Or is it all just symbolic, creating images
>of unwanted things leaving us so we feel better for a bit?
Symbolic? No way! Body Thetans and Clusters are what causes
people to be irrational, emotional, ill and insane. No symbolism
in the scienotek. It's all literal.
>Is it the case that any individual with a history of psychosis is
>(a) going to be attracted more to these ideas and
>(b) will fall foul of the posession interpretation rather than adopt
>the symbolic interpretation?
It's not symbolic, Rex. It's toadly literal. Tubbo said we
are all possessed by thousands of these little demon entities
called Body Thetans. They exist just as we exist. He devised a
way to make people suggestible enough to believe it and ACTUALLY
PAY up to $1200 per hour to exorcise the pesky, little, imaginary
buggers.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
19. Are Body Thetans Angered by Exorcism? ("EdGray000")
On Mon, 01 Apr 1996 16:43:47 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
edgray000@aol.com (EdGray000) wrote:
>Me:
>>> One of the main things that the scienos do not want known about
>>> their disgusting little scam cult of greed and power, is the
>>> major roll demonic possession and occult exorcism plays in the
>>> bait-and-switch fraud.
>
>Rex:
>>Are the famous Body Thetans actually supposed to be malevolent?
>
>Dennis:
> "No more or less so than any other thetan whose evil intentions,
>overts and implants have caused him to "pull-in" (karmically)
>being in the state where they don't have enough power even to run
>a flea-body."
>
>Rex:
>>Or just spirits stunned into stupidity so far they don't know what day
>>it is?
>
>Dennis:
> "That too. But they obviously "pulled it in"."
>
> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Ed:
>Hi, Dennis. I find this thread extremely fascinating, so I hope you will
>continue it. It's just hard for me to think of specific questions.
>However, I just managed to think of a couple.
>
>1. If you try to exorcise a body thetan, or cluster thereof, and are not
>initially successful, do they get mad? (I would, in their place.)
Mad, crazy, restimulated, active, evil, emotional ... all of
those things. That's when they have the *most* effect on the
chump. That's what "by-passed-charge" is at lower levels of
auditing. Things touched on, and not fully handled. Very bad
thing.
>2. Do they then get revenge by intensifying whatever problems they've
>been causing,
Perhaps revenge. But their effect is certainly intensified.
They have been "enlivened" by the attention of the chump.
>or in other ways?
Many.
>Thanks, Dennis.
You're certainly welcome.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
20. Do Mirrors Reflect "Beams"? (John Drake)
On Fri, 05 Apr 1996 06:34:39 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
j6d@pell.interpath.net (John Drake) wrote:
emerald@alpha.c2.org wrote:
>>>Neutralize the beam?!? Can you expand on this?
Me:
>> L12 has a major step which utilizes the occult practice of
>>casting spells/evil-eye/etc. - beams. Tubbo asserted there were
>>"energy beams" which could transmit bad intentions through the
>>airwaves and cause various undesirable conditions in one's
>>enemies. (note: this is the often-observed, patented Scieno
>>Deathstare(tm).) These beams would "restim" (restimulate/key-in)
>>people's body thetans.
John:
>I should stay out of this thread, but the mental image is just
>too strong. If someone gave me this Deathstare(tm), could I
>whip out a pocket mirror and bounce the "energy beams" back?
Yes. In the "theta universe," that's exactly what you'd do.
>John "I'm rubber and you're glue" Drake
Sticks to you.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
21. OT3 Incidents I & II; How Auditing Induces Delusions (Iain Brown)
On Fri, 05 Apr 1996 17:01:48 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
Iain Brown <iain@aint.com> wrote:
>As kind of an aside, I have this problem not only with Scientology
>procedures, but with everything I've read from Hubbard. It's very hard
>to criticize writing precisely when the writing itself doesn't make any
>sense. Most of his writing reminds me of the kind of stuff I say when
>I'm talking in my sleep, and if you can't hold on to a concept, you
>can't pinpoint what's wrong with it. Politicians rely on that when
>they make well-designed empty statements, and they work very hard to do
>it. Hubbard doesn't seem to need to work so hard to say nothing.
He's a master of making spin sound like content.
>Incidents are unclear to me. Could you go into more detail about what
>these incidents are and how they're used, or is that getting too
>general?
I'd post Phatso's verbatim description of them, but it would
probably just make MoFo work harder on the case. And I don't
post anonymously.
From memory, this is the data one learns at the level of Oat
Tea 3:
Incident One happened 4 quadrillion years ago to every thetan
(that's supposed to be you and I). This is the beginning of the
Time Track (3-D movie-like recording of every event that's every
happened while we live). So the "pictures" started happening.
Pictures are considered very bad to the scienos, because engrams
are recorded on pictures. The picture making and storing machine
is the mind. The mind is comprised of the Reactive mind and the
analytical mind. The thetan is the driver of the vehicle.
Except who the thetan thinks he is wrong. He is a composite
being who is made of thousands of other beings (with minds and
thetans) clumped to him.
The incident startled the unsuspecting thetan, being newly
created and only several billion years old, into creating an
artificial way of viewing events: recording them as pictures.
The incident itself is considered so stupid and irrelevant that
it confused the pool thetan into storing away for future thought
and reference; hence the picture.
75 million years ago Incident II was perpetrated by the evil
galactic Overtlord Xenu. He had too many subjects. He ordered
billions of them on various planets to "report in" to their local
IRS office. There they were killed in nazi assembly-line
fashion. Their "thetans" were frozen in alcohol, packed into
little boxes, placed in spaceships that looked like "modern"
DC-8s, and transported to earth. These two parts of Incident II
are specifically called CAPTURE and TRANSPORT.
The newly arrived, boxed, quick-frozen thetans are placed at
the base of volcanos on earth. The billions of imported, frozen
thetans, and the entire population of earth are blown upward into
electronic ribbons which trap them high above the surface of
earth. They are brought down to earth (I guess the Marcabian
implanters were immune to radiation) and put through 36 days of
symbolic and conceptual implants. During this implant, called
R6, the reactive mind is installed. It consists of various
dichotomous impulses, evil intentions, pictures of God and Jesus,
suicidal tendencies, etc. These are all useful to control the
population. These parts of Incident II are called EXPLOSION AND
IMPLANT.
The now somewhat disoriented imported, frozen thetans are
taken, from their various implant locations all over the earth to
the corresponding packaging center. There were 2. One assembly
line went right down the main street of the Mediterranean town of
Las Palmas. The other packaging was done in Hawaii. Anyway, the
unfortunate thetans (that's you and me folks) were clumped
together into clusters of thetans. Remember, there were billions
of people to dispose of, and only a few surviving "host" bodies
on earth. So thousands of thetans were smuished together. Each
cluster thought it was one being, because they all had the same
incident and they thought that meant they were one being. In
actuality there was a leader to each cluster. The thetan that
did the most thinking and control. The other thetans in the
cluster think they are "him". This is called the PACKAGING part
of Incident II.
The clusters floated away until they could latch onto and
torment a being with a body. Often the cluster would just swoop
down, kick the unsuspecting thetan out, and take over the body.
What I have described is how El Rotundo described Incident II.
You can see how brain-dead someone would have to be to take
this drivel seriously and believe it actually happened to them.
"There is no limit to the self-delusion one is capable of heaping
upon himself."
>I'm not sure what would be occult about this 'intention'. It does seem
>to relate closely to 'visualization', which is something that has been
>adopted by occult-related New Age groups, but which seems to have some
>reasonable psychological basis. Visualize something (feasible)
>happening to you, and as you come to believe it's possible, it will
>become possible. If your BTs are an extension of yourself, I guess the
>same could apply. Of course, even the New Age version of this isn't
>performed under hypnosis or directed by someone else.
I have indeed witnessed guided, group-affirmation sessions.
They are not all that different in mechanics than scieno staff
meetings.
>> On NOTs: Thetan hand, What are you/Who are you.
>
>I need to understand more about what NOTs are before I can ask
>anything about this. I'll get back to you...
Sure thing.
>> On L12: Date/locate the incident, neutralize the beam
>
><whoosh>... that one has missed me completely. 'Neutralize the
>beam'? What would that mean? Also, is this 'incident' the same as the
>I and II you refered to, or is this some kind of personal event?
Glad you caught that. There is an incident where the beam was
placed on the person. A personal event. If one can "mock up"
(visualize, imagine) a corresponding opposite type of energy
wave, and place it in the same space as the enemy beam, one can
"neutralize" the enemy's spell. Like anti-sound. The other half
of the sine wave.
>> Tubby said
>> "The Reactive Mind is entirely composed of BTs and Clusters."
>
>Does this leave any room for the individual?
The "individual" is whoever emerges as the leader thetan from
the clump of thetans that all think they are one being.
>It sounds like there is nothing left, and all of an individual's
>acheivements and failures are merely the products of the posessing
>demons.
Only the bad stuff in one's life is created by the commands
implanted in the body thetans.
>Sounds like a neat way to evade responsibility. This reminds me of
>something I heard attributed to Crowley, but I can't remember what it
>was.
>
>'Course, those excuses couldn't be used by clears, right?
A clear has erased "his own" picture recording machine created
by the R6 implant, 75 million years ago. He still has thousands
of body thetans and their reactive minds. He finds this out on
Oat Tea 3.
>You've mentioned this a couple of times. Is a person who has gone
>through all this taught that he or she is a god, or is this just a
>reference to the fact that they think they're better than us ordinary
>folks?
Only God (a god), of all types of beings, would have the power
to create other beings and universes. The scienos claim the
state of Oat Tea gives one the power to transcend the laws of the
physical universe and even to create universes.
>I've definitely seen some amazing gaffes made by the handlers here that
>I can only attribute to the writer believing that he or she has divine
>powers, and is able not only to persuade us that hot is cold, but to
>actually make hot be cold.
Precisely. If they can get others to believe their
self-delusion, it becomes "real". Reality is defined as
agreement. If you agree with it, that's what "is". If enough
folks agree with it, it becomes true.
>> >From what I have gleaned here, I am convinced that the process of
>> >'auditing' is an attempt to induce a hypnotic state in the individual.
>>
>> It's more than an attempt. As the scienos are so fond of
>> trumpeting: IT WORKS!
>
>Now that's something I'd like to hear more about, and perhaps you can
>speak to this. The Australian court report leaves no doubt that
>auditing has adopted the processes of hypnosis, and many of the results
>of auditing can only have come from hypnosis, but what part does
>hypnosis play in general?
The whole courseroom and auditing environment are set up to be
hypnotic. The auditor's commands and unnatural communication
(THIS IS THE SESSION!), the e-meter telling the auditor about
what's going on in the chump's mind, it all creates an
environment where the chump gives up his own self-control over to
the auditor. (Do not attempt to adjust your pictures. We
control the vertical. We control the horizontal.)
>Mark Espee(sp?) seems to have gotten through his short stay in
>Scientology without succumbing, but still convincing his auditors that
>he was following procedure.
>
>If one does not succumb to a hypnotic state, is the auditing session a
>failure?
Absolutely. One must submit oneself to mental manipulation.
If not, one is considered "open-minded" or some other form of
Potential Trouble Source.
>Does hypnosis become more significant in different stages, e.g. during
>the OT processes?
Each session builds on the last. The whole inside of one's
head now belongs to the auditor and case supervisor. They have
more rights in there than you do.
>> The paranoia, schizophrenia are INDUCED by the programming.
>> The chump is given and must adopt completely, a whole new model
>> of his mind and psyche. These new patterns of perception,
>> thought and action *directly induce* the conditions you describe
>> above. I call it Scieno-psychosis.
>
>That's interesting -- you make it sound like the effects are
>deliberately induced rather than being results of irresponsible
>processing. I hadn't thought of it this way, but it makes sense... you
>can't really sense your BTs without having become something like
>schizophrenic. (Excuse me if I misuse the terms, I'm a computer
>programmer, not a mind programmer :-) Is there a deliberate use of
>paranoia? It certainly seems to be prominently displayed by Scientology
>adherents!
Examining how paranoia specifically is induced; things only go
wrong or bad in the presence of suppression. This means that the
chump is trained to examine his environment for the "who"
whenever he has a problem. Suppression comes from psychotic
people (Espees) who have "evil intentions". They get into your
life and cause you trouble. You need help in spotting them,
because sometimes they are your closest friends or relatives.
>Given that, how do you identify a psychotic break? I don't recall the
>Scieno term for cracking up during processing, but I recall you using
>it recently, and I imagine it would be a fairly common event.
PTS Type 3, psychotic break, flipping out, freewheeling, going
psycho. They all mean the same thing and yes, they are fairly
common in people undergoing the scieno programming.
>Thanks again for your willingness to inForm, Dennis!
No problemo, Iain.
(posted&mailed)
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
22. Recursive Thetans: BTs of BTs (Dave Touretzky)
On Fri, 05 Apr 1996 17:01:59 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
dst+@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
>Dennis, here's another demonic possession question for you. You state
>that late in the game, Hubbard reveals that the reactive mind is
>actually composed of body thetans.
This is exactly what he says on Class 12 Tape 2.
>But body thetans are "blown" by the pre-OT by clearing them, that is,
>eliminating their reactive minds.
Right.
>So if a body thetan has a reactive mind, doesn't that mean it must have body
>thetans of its own? Where does it keep them?
Yes, he may be clumped together with other thetans in his
cluster. Their collective reactive minds may, in essence, be his
reactive mind, simply because he believes all of them are him.
>I believe this problem has
>been considered in other philosophical works. For example:
>
> Bigger bugs have little bugs
> That ride around and bite 'em.
> And little bugs have littler bugs,
> And so, ad infinitum.
> -- Ogden Nash (from memory, so perhaps not letter-perfect)
... infinitum.
>I'm confused, Dennis. Help!
I've seen grown men with the same problem, Dave.
[ posted and mailed ]
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
23. BTs Are Attracted by "Mutual Incidents" ("Prignilliu")
On Sun, 14 Apr 1996 03:50:52 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
an451544@anon.penet.fi (Prignilliu) wrote:
>Hi, Dennis!
Hi, Prig.
>In a post in another thread, you mentioned that Body Thetans
>are "attracted to us by mutual incidents."
>I have never heard anything like this.
>Could you please InForm us some more about this?
Sure thing.
According to El Cagon, when two or more beings experience the same
incident, they create virtually identical engrams (mental image
pictures) of the incident. Because of the mutual picture, they tend
to think they are the same entity. This makes them glom onto each
other.
Of course the biggest mutual incident was the volcano implant,
Incident 2. (75 million years ago) That's the one that created all
the body thetans that inhabit your body.
>Thanks!
Sure thing.
>Prignillius
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
24. Origins; The Third-Dynamic Engram; BTs vs. Valences ("Freimann Boddhisatva")
On Sun, 14 Apr 1996 23:52:38 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
banhut@mail.hh.provi.de (RDD) asks excellent questions:
>Hi Dennis,
Hi, Freimann. I've been really enjoying your postings of late.
>have a question on the demons and thetans and counterthetans.
Not surprising, Freimi.
>How is it possible that a thetan has a "time-track" ?
All thetans in the universe have time-tracks. The time track is the
file cabinet system under which the mental image pictures are stored.
El Tubbo thought the mind should record like a camera; filing the
painful "footage" in the reactive mind and the neutral or pleasant
experiences in the analytical mind. The recordings include not only
visual, but all sensory data.
The mechanics of how the unfortunate little thetan got hisself so
screwed up, that's the story of "the static" and its strange existence
over the billions of years leading up to Incident 1.
>I mean, per definition, a thetan is actually a Static, with no masses and
>no position in space ?
Let's call the static the "pre-thetan." Static is the life "stuff"
from which broke off the thetan. 'Cept, just like any snake oil, it
isn't *anything*. TheElRon said the static had no mass, no
wavelength, no location in space or time. Don't try to verify
anything about it, cause it ain't there at all!
It floats along for billions of pre-years, creating things to view,
little universes really, into existence.
Boring. The static needed a game.
Game magically appears in the form of Incident 1. From what agency?
From the Man behind the curtain, of course. I call him (in slang: the
one who sh*ts a lot) El Cagon.
Puff of smoke, deafening crash, trumpets announce, cherubs in
chariot ride forth, turn left, turn right, disappear, it's over.
Confused the unfortunate thetan into making recordings to "analyze"
later. Time-track resulted. Each unfortunate little thetan is locked
down to it from then on. Gotta deal with it. Pay for falling into
the trap of creating a time-track. Who does he have to pay? The Man
Behind the Curtain.
>The Definition of Clear is : someone who hasn't his own reactive Mind anymore.
'Zactly.
>Does that mean, that he has only his BTs' reactive minds,
That's all that's left. Thousands and thousands of unfortunate
little thetans, each with their own little time-tracks and reactive
minds.
>or that he has now the reactive mind of all "uncleared" persons around him ?
That too.
>Or that he has now both his BTs and other persons bank to handle ?
Yes. The latter is the famous Third Dynamic Engram(tm). The Oat
Tea must work around the fact that all the wogs around are just
programmed, automated bots who are too dumb to notice that they don't
have freewill. (that's us Espees, DeeBees and meatbeings)
>Well this definition is actually a limitation and restriction to the state
>of the so called CLEAR (tm)
It's just part of the false advertising they are allowed to engage
in to facilitate their fraud.
>Is there any similar limitation or restriction
>to the state of OT ? Is there a kind of "another different reactive mind"
>( like we have first engramm-bank, implants-bank, BTs-bank ) that has to
>be handled (dissolved) after OT ?
Yes. Very astute, Freimann.
Even tho the now fully-paid, licensed Operating Thetan can create
universes (just like any other god), his limitation is that in the
universe of universes, other thetans around him have unwittingly, but
nonetheless equally strongly, created their own counter-universes.
>How can the auditor or CS realize the difference between PCs or BTs
>reaction to the E-meter on the lower levels ? How to realize that
>difference in general?
Precisely. This is why one can not process a clear on engrams. The
may not be his (I use the term loosely) pictures. More likely, if he
is clear, the engram belongs to a BT.
Below clear, it is assumed that the mark will be actually auditing
"someone else's" case and reactive mind. BT's and Cluster's problems.
>I mean, is it possible that a BT is so destructive, that he sends
>rockslams to the E-meter where the PC has no Rs at all - for example ?
Yes! Happens all the time. It just means that the mark is so at
effect of his BT's control, that their suppressive tendencies read on
the meter. So it's questionable whether it is the Espee BT running
the person. Likely the mark is dramatizing the identity of the espee.
>I mean is it possible, that a PC pays for the whole bridge, and then finds
>out on OT Levels, that *he* never got the auditing... but that some clever
>BTs are
>cheatening him out of all the benefizz ? No joke !
Happens every day. "It was really a bt that got the grades. Now
he's blown. That's why *I* still have problems, commit overts and
make others wrong." I've heard that before.
>When the BTs are not the PC, but react to the PCs perceptions of the world
>and the life - with what systems of perception do the BTs have awareness
>of the life and world of the PC? Is there a kind of telepathic
>communication, or are the BTs exterior and not in need of neuro-systems ?
The body thetans are packed in so tight to the mark that they
experience through the mark's channels of perception. They think
they're him, and he thinks they are too. That's why at the end of the
OT3 material, TheElRon sez, "The primary mistake a thetan makes is
thinking we are all one." Or some such drivel.
>When a christian priest does an "exorcism" - something very normal- and he
>gets the usual answer from the Demon : "my name is legion, I am
>thousands!",
>is the priest then talking to all BTs or just to a cluster ?
A Cluster created by a mutual incident.
>Did Hubbard ever made some research into the christian demonic teachings ?
Only enough to say that the who christian "thing" was implanted in
order to control the little thetan demons, during the 36 days of
pictures in Incident 2, 75 million years ago.
>I mean, the terms and the so called incidents are different, but the
>system/program is quite the same.
Not nearly. El Tubbo's methods are occult.
>If the master says :"find your true self " does he mean you are a BT, or
>that a BT of you is more true than you are ?
Maybe both. First one to make the other leave is declared "you".
>What is the real difference between BT and Valence ?
Valence is an *assumed* identity a thetan takes on and acts out. A
body thetan is an entity that can take on valences.
>What makes Hubbard able to distinguish the right valance from the wrong valence?
All valences are bad. They are not the "being himself".
>I mean, when does this man find out, that he is now no longer a valence or
>cluster but himself ? And if he was in no valence, who could then be aware
>of the fact that he (who) is now himself (who) ?
If it's true for "him".
>Freimann
Fun questions!
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
25. Martin Hunt's List of the NOTs Series (Perry Scott)
On Mon, 15 Apr 1996 00:59:34 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
perry@fc.hp.com (Perry Scott) wrote:
>: >Is there anything of interest in those NOTS bulletins that haven't yet
>: >made it to the net? Or is it just more of the same?
Me:
>: Many. Martin Hunt posted a list. It is probably far from
>: complete.
Perry:
>FYI, Martin posted an excerpt from the Ward TRO (I hope that thing got
>webbed somewhere). Helena made the list herself, so assuming Co$
>copyrighted all of NOTs, that's the complete list. Think of it as
>Operation Foot Bullet in the small.
>Perry Scott
>Co$ Escapee
Those materials were, if I'm not mistaken, the NOTs Series as they
existed in the early-mid 80's.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
26. How Do Scientologists Maintain Their Self-delusions? ("Freimann Boddhisatva")
On Tue, 23 Apr 1996 15:26:02 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
banhut@mail.hh.provi.de (RDD) wrote:
>So I got it now, on the horizontal-line we got still the purpose of
>"Clearing the Planet - Universe" that means all and every matter-connected
>reality, our friendships, feelings, e.a.
It's a Clockwork Orange.
>... and on the vertical-line we now come to the purpose of "Clearing the Static"
>from need of "having game at all"... Incident "1" Rundown.:-)
Endless spirals of self delusion.
>For purpose 1 can not be realized, purpose 2 becomes the more important on the
>basics:
>1. There is unconditioned good and evil (absolute good and evil) in the "mind".
>2. The reality that surrounds us is only a reflection of the "Statics-Mind".
>3. The good and the evil so become a question of imagination _Mind_.
>4. Every victory for the good, that we make in our Mind (Like every engramm or
> implant or body-thetan we get rid of) is a surrender of the evil, that was
> created by a (the) Static.
Yea, El Tubbo called it "Diggin the ditch."
>Well, I think that everybody knows this state of mind from his/her childhood:
>Cowboys and Indians, Gunslingers and Gangsters, Pirates and Muteneers,
>Angels and Demons. In short: idealized Positions of Hollywood-Movies, or
>Adventure-Novels (also Science Fiction)
>So it comes to a point of (very questionable) "selfawareness" that seems
>to live the reality of: If I am able to change the script of my "personal
>mental movies" I change the reality as a whole! Crazy!
Right. But not toadly without merit. People realize their "mood"
influences how things go for them. Then they try to turn something
organic into something mechanical (clockwork-orange style) and it
becomes automated self-delusion.
>But perhaps you can help me on some parts of these kind of games, that I
>do not understand:
>1. What tricks or methods does Ronbard use, to make people "certainly believe"
> that this (inner) movies are Reality ?
It is defined that way and accepted by the mark as his model,
paradigm and filter for how he experiences and "mentally processes"
the ongoing experience of being alive.
>2. What tricks or methods are used by the "present scienos" to hold on to this
> delusion, even if they have left the Co$
Once you train the mind to see things a certain way, you can never
un-experience the training. Some vestige of its perspective will
continue even after the methods are disgarded, especially if the
methods "worked".
>I mean, the simple question: what do you expect from life?
>would make this delusion leave instantly .. one wants a houseboat, the other a
>swimmingpool, another a house in the desert...
>So I think of:
>3. What tricks or methods are used to degrade the natural and easy interests
> and expectations of people
> and
>4. Got them to a state of mind, where they become themselves that "enthusiastic"
> degraders of their fellow mens' simple hopes and dreams? (and call it Love
> and Help, which is only perverted emotions/sentimentality)
> and
>5. Got them to a State of Mind, where they try to handle the "static"
> - the life, or god or whatever - and to make it a uni-formed
> "only-one-purpose-Unit"? ...and really believe in the rightness and
> succeeding of this purpose? That is the basic "scieno-credo!
I don't want to know my enemy's mind well enough to answere these
questions, Freimi.
>best
>"Freimann Boddhisatva"
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
27. Implant Stations: Automated? ("Paper Tiger")
On Wed, 24 Apr 1996 22:50:32 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
papertiger@alpha.c2.org (Paper Tiger) wrote:
> I've got another question, this time about the "Implant Stations"
> of the between-lives area, supposedly on Mars (for men) and Venus
> (for women) if I'm remembering this correctly. I recall that one's
> thetan is supposedly shipped there for processing when you drop
> your current body.
Right, that's where you go after each life to have your memories
erased and to be re-implanted with the program to self-destruct.
> Are these implant stations supposed to be running on automatic, i.e.
> with clever little machines delicately <snap>ping and <bap>ping the
> incoming thetans/souls full of delicious new engrams, or are they
> manned by dedicated Marcabs and/or other unsavory types?
I think on automatic, but in actual fact, that part of the sci-fi
pulp mythology never interested me much.
> More: at some point on the Bridge is one's thetan supposed to be
> strong enough to either ignore the siren's song of the implant
> station, or pass through but shrug off the implanted nasties?
Right. If you pay the scienokult enough money then you don't have
to go through the between-lives implant.
> Have I wandered completely astray in Hubbardian Mythology?
No, PT. You haven't.
> ** Paper Tiger (SP3, LFDoX)
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
28. The Gender of a Thetan (Frank Copeland)
On Wed, 01 May 1996 19:53:48 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
fjc@wossname.apana.org.au (Frank Copeland) wrote:
Paper Tiger (papertiger@alpha.c2.org) wrote:
>: I've got another question, this time about the "Implant Stations"
>: of the between-lives area, supposedly on Mars (for men) and Venus
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>: (for women) if I'm remembering this correctly. I recall that one's
> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>: thetan is supposedly shipped there for processing when you drop
>: your current body.
Frank:
>This is a new one on me. I thought thetans were supposed to be sexless,
>that sex was a characteristic of the genetic entity (and we've all read how
>fucked up LRH was about sex). Why would would thetans be sorted in this
>way? Dennis?
You are correct. I never heard of male and female between-lives
implant stations. I told you I was no expert on ElRotundo's sci-fi
pulp cosmology. Only on the tek.
>: Are these implant stations supposed to be running on automatic, i.e.
>: with clever little machines delicately <snap>ping and <bap>ping the
>: incoming thetans/souls full of delicious new engrams, or are they
>: manned by dedicated Marcabs and/or other unsavory types?
>
>Do they do the sorting by sex, or is that done somewhere else? If thetans
>have to be routed to processing stations on different planets, I would
>presume it is done at the point of origin.
No sorting. Those pesky little thetans are sexless. But they do
take their banks (reactive minds) and a host of body thetans with them
when they go between lives.
>Frank Copeland
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
29. Where Do My BTs Go When I Die? ("Baba ROM DOS")
On Wed, 01 May 1996 23:52:41 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
baba@jones.neu.sgi.com (Baba ROM DOS) wrote:
fjc@wossname.apana.org.au (Frank Copeland) wrote:
>[Re: Reincarnation of thetans at implant stations on Mars and Venus]
>>>Do they do the sorting by sex, or is that done somewhere else? If thetans
>>>have to be routed to processing stations on different planets, I would
>>>presume it is done at the point of origin.
Me:
>> No sorting. Those pesky little thetans are sexless. But they do
>>take their banks (reactive minds) and a host of body thetans with them
>>when they go between lives.
Baba:
>Now wait a minute. How can we take body thetans with us when we drop
>our bodies?
They think they're us and we think we're them. It's called a
cluster.
>I mean, if the pesky little critters really believe they
>are my pancreas, why should they follow me?
They wait patiently til you get another pancreas. Or they just
imagine that they are your pancreas when you don't have a body. They
have pretty wild imaginations, you know.
>And how is it that the implant
>machinery implants them too?
Mutual incidents were explained earlier. Do try to follow along.
>I mean, assming one has a machine for sifting
>souls that can keep me from being reimplanted in the same person as, say, you,
>why shouldn't the same mechanism seperate me from my BTs?
Who's talking about sifting? Everybody gets the same incident and
so everybody thinks they're the same entity. The you that you think
is you is really a collection of entities.
>Was there ever any
>"research" into how many lifetimes the average BT follows the same "free"
>thetan?
Till the "free" thetan runs out of money or realizes what a deluded
fool he's been. Whichever comes first.
>And it was all so plausible up to this point...
Love your sense of humor, Baba.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
30. Mars & Venus in The History of Man (John Ritson)
On Thu, 02 May 1996 19:20:35 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
John Ritson <john@jritson.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>'History of Man' says "The report area for most has been Mars. Some
>women report to stations elsewhere in the solar system. There are
>occasional incidents about Earth report stations."
Wow. Learn something useless every day. I read HOM years ago and
paid little interest to the Phattard's wierd yarns.
Me:
>> No sorting. Those pesky little thetans are sexless. But they do
>>take their banks (reactive minds) and a host of body thetans with them
>>when they go between lives.
>
>That's nice to know. I have become very attached to my BodyThetans and
>would hate to leave them behind for some less appreciative host when I
>drop the body.
<snort>
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
31. On Religions, Good and Bad ("Freimann Boddhisatva")
On Fri, 03 May 1996 15:58:42 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
banhut@mail.hh.provi.de (Freimann/Gefecht) wrote:
[his post never made it to the newsgroup]
I said:
>> I don't want to know my enemy's mind well enough to answere these
>>questions, Freimi.
Freimi:
>Seems that I have to live my life with this basic confusion and
>un-certainty, in the "highest spheres" of "religiosity".
Learn to live with it.
>For a man who is non-religious as I am, there is no question of "real" religion
>and pseudo-religion. It's a long history of competitions and developement
>of schools or Teaching-Systems that try to handle the relation and
>interaction of these "inner movies" towards the present reality.
Yes, it is all sorely inadequate in plumbing the mysteries of the
infinite and describing them so our puny, finite minds can comprehend.
>And of course this includes the behavior of men towards his fellows and all
>forms of live, and the circumstances/realities that support their lives...
>or the "enemys". That must not be the fellow but can also be bad weather,
>hard winter, hunger, earthquake and so on... or the failure of a
>product/structural
>changes in the economic/busyness world. So how to handle the consequences
>of such tragedys is also a question of the belief-system or meta-program.
Yes, the infinite encompasses quite a bit.
>So when I look at those considerations, I do realize that there are no
>right or wrong, real or unreal religions, but simply a spectrum of bad
>religions to
>good religions - a competition in the trying to develope and "sell" a
>"better service or product. (in the best meaning each of us could imagine)
>I don't have any special ideas in mind, or a target to achieve in this
>communication.
Well then, you're right on the money.
>And so, I have just one question at last, to end the "demonic possession"
>matter, and I would be enjoyed if you would answer this, the honest and
>decent way, you are talking with me all the time:
I will try.
>What points or basics would make a good or better religion
>regarding to those religions (and cults and whatever) we have now ?
Something to facilitate the individual to communicate with the
Creator directly, without intervention of priest or shaman.
>What basic-ideas or programs must be given, to attract the most people, in
>a decent way, without defamation and discrimination, and in order to serve
>people with the best help and service that is possible in each given
>time/culture/system ?
Can you make the question any broader?
>Looking forward to get your answer
>many thanks for your kind communication
>that has never given me the feeling
>that you tryed to dominate me, or being superior to me
Of course, I am not superior to anyone.
>and that is much goodness
>at least in the world I am living in
That's just the way I want you to receive it, Freimi.
>much love
>and the best wishes
>for all you do (and have to go thru still)
Thanks,
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
32. Scientology Is Based on Control ("Freimann Boddhisatva")
On Thu, 16 May 1996 01:49:01 GMT, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
banhut@mail.hh.provi.de (RDD) wrote:
>No Tarla, masses and individuals are controlled by physical violence or
>the threat (mental violence) with physical violence...by laws and rules,
>and threat with destruction of wellbeing and existence, the destruction of
>communication and communication-tools, by evil consequences for everybody
>dancing off lines... by wars, illness, frustration, pain, by death...
You are right! Control is gained by violence or the threat of
violence. Scientology is based on control. Control your mind, your
emotions, your enviornment, your next life, MEST, everything! They
call it Oat Tea.
The methods and formulae it uses to control those things do violence
to each.
>Mental and physical violence is the main practice to achieve the goals of
>the scieno-religion within a multicultural society.
>So far for the memetic-thinking.
You're awesome, Freimi.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
33. Why So Many Dichotomous (Mock/Unmock) Auditing Commands? (Anonymous)
On 28 Jul 1996 21:02:04 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
Responding to e-mail:
>One question I would like to see addressed more is that of the pitfalls
>of the dichotomous thinking in training routines, and other processing.
>Such as, the commands to: "Create/destroy this that or the other". Or
>mock up/unmock up, or what are you willing to know/what are you willing
>to not-know about this person/thing.
>
>What does constantly switching mental processes in this way do to a person:
>1) in fact
Many, many processes in scienotek have this dichotomous aspect. It
is the Phattard's way of implanting black and white thinking into the
mark.
>and
>2) in CoS theory: i.e. what is the _supposed_ goal of scientology in
>constantly creating this type of dichotomous thinking situations in the
>preclear?
Supposedly these dichotomies were implanted millions of years ago.
If you look at the Clearing Course and Oat Tea 2 material you will see
that this is the nature of implants. The lower level processes that
address this with the use of commands such as "what could you
withhold?/what could you fail to withhold?" kinda questions are
supposed to 'key-out' (release the person from) the effects of the
implanted items and goals.
>If you think that this topic might be of interest to other readers, feel
>free to post any of this message that might get a discussion going.
I will.
>If it's been done before and you have any web references or archive sites
>about it, I would appreciate any of those you could suggest, or of course
>your own comments.
I wish I knew of where to send you. Just ask any more questions you
want and I'll try to answer.
>Thanks in advance.
[withheld]
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
34. Do Thetans Have Mass? (Keith Spurgeon)
On 4 Aug 1996 10:09:02 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
Keith Spurgeon <spurgeon@is2.nyu.edu>:
>Hiya Dennis
Hey, Keith.
>Here's something I've wondered about for a while.
>Do thetans themselves have mass?
Yes, but only to the degree that they believe they do, and are
mocking it up.
>Do they occupy space like a Mest body would?
Yes. But again, only to the degree that they believe they occupy a
location in the physical universe and have 'anchor points' here.
>(I know LRH said that thetans created space and time.)
Yes. Mass, energy, life and form, too.
>In some instances it seems they do, like when they are bundled and
>blown up by Xenu or when they are "clustered" as body raisins.
They were in bodies when they were blown up, so they still have the
idea that they have mass and location. Very woggy.
>But the conception of 'soul,' which I've always considered as roughly
>equivalent to 'thetan,' pretty much means there is no mass, no point in
>space in which it exists.
Right. Except to the degree that the thetan ~thinks~ so.
>Can you think of any other examples where they seem to have mass and
>different ones where they don't?
Sure.
>How would LRH explain this seeming contradiction?
They "mock it up".
>I'm specifically wondering because of mentions of Thetans that seem to have
>blown the body, but which are somehow 'entangled' with other non-exorcised
>demons, which keeps them a-hanging on. How can a thing without mass or
>space be tangled with anything?
They get confused and ~think~ they are trapped, so they are. [Just
like the marks in the cult, btw.]
>If this has been discussed anywhere, I'd be curious to know so I can find
>out about the differing conceptions.
Not much about this has been touched on. You should ask some of the
Freetekkies to explain it.
>Feel free to post these questions and your comments if you want.
M'gonna.
>Hope you are doing well, Dennis.
Every morning I wake up alive I am thankful, Keith.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
35. Does the Reactive Mind Follow its Thetan Between Lives? (Keith Bennett)
On 4 Aug 1996 10:09:03 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
dkeith@best.com (Keith Bennett):
> I read the road to Xenu on-line and I can understand why she blew
>the org after reading OTIII... I am confused as to why you would
>continue with an organization that takes up your time and money and
>then lets you realise that you made the whole thing up? with their
>encouragement?
It's all P.T. Barnum's fault! People crave illusion. The 'merkin
kultcher domesticates them that way.
> I'm amazed... nay, shocked that the "clear cog" is that you made
>the whole thing up? I realised THAT as soon as I heard auditing
>described...
It does seem pretty obvious, doesn't it?
> Trying to understand this is making my brain hurt.
It's just like smoking cigarettes: it tastes awful at first, but if you
keep doing it, somehow you end up likin' it.
> Umm... does the reactive mind follow the thetan around?
Yes, the thetan himself 'mocks-up' (creates) the reactive mind. He
cannot stop creating it, so it follows him through successive
incarnations. The Oat Tea material states, "the reactive mind is
composed of body thetans and clusters." These, too, are attached to
the thetan (a huge ~cumulative cluster~) lifetime after lifetime.
>or is it asociated with the GE?
No. The concept of Genetic Entity lasted only a bit longer that the
discarded term "file clerk".
>I assume the former, as I'm not sure how your reactive mind could have
>"mocked up" something that happened in a previous lifetime.
In a previous lifetime, the mocked up reactive mind mocked up a
picture of the incident. That picture is still being created
(unknowingly) by the thetan today.
> Made up, otoh, that I can see.
Made up means mocked up.
> I personally find it facinating that Scientology creates false
>memories in their people. IIRC, Scientology is involved with the FMS
>foundation.
Huh? Scienotology creates false memories. The FMS Fdn. warns
people about practices that induce false memories. Is that what you
mean by 'involved with'? What does IIRC mean?
[If I Recall Correctly -- editor]
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
36. Can a Clear Get New Engrams? (Rebecca Hartong)
On 4 Aug 1996 14:35:03 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
hartong@netins.net (Rebecca Hartong):
>>I thought engrams were created during moments of pain and unconsciousness.
>>How can you be responsible for creating something that supposedly only
>>happens when you're unconscious?
>>
>>I thought the "clear cognition" was the sudden realization that all of
>>your old engrams were gone. No? So, what happens if--after a person's
>>gone "clear"--they get knocked unconscious and beaten with a big stick
>>whilst the attacker shouts "You're nothing but pond scum! You're nothing
>>but pond scum!" over and over and over. Would the person get some kind
>>of really weird engram from an event like that? Even though they'd gone
>>"clear"? Or does going clear somehow release one from they cycle of
>>unconsciousness-pain-engram? (Sorta like getting off the wheel of karma?)
gemmamp1@aol.com (GEMMAMP1):
>If a clear were hit over the head and told they were nothing but pond
>scum, they would not be affected by that experience because they would not
>continue to recreate (mock-up) the experience.
But his buddy thetans and clusters would record the incident and
injury would still have an effect on the poor deluded mark. It just
wouldn't be ~his~ engram. It would belong to all the BTs and clusters
that are attached to him. And ~their~ reactive mind would effect him
just like his used to.
>The experience would occur and that would be that -- no
>self-created after-effects.
But he's responsible for "pulling in" both the bad experience and
the BTs that recorded it. <snicker>
There is no escape without paying. Will that be cash or check?
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
37. Which NOTs Have You Done? (Martin Hunt)
On 6 Aug 1996 15:33:01 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
av282@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Martin G. V. Hunt):
>>>It was a take-off of an HCOB that would be hard to take seriously
>>>(although some people were fooled...like Dennis. :-)
YHN:
>> Yes, I just glanced at it during the time that other real Droppings
>> were being posted, and I didn't notice that it was a fake. I didn't
>> publicly validate it as real, however. I never did any but the new
>> Oat Tea 6, so I figured there were probably a couple of Old Oat Tea
>> 6's I'd not seen.
Martin:
>You did the new OT6, like the NOTs packs?
I did all the rundowns in NOTs to completion, except Solo NOTS.
(which wasn't released yet)
>I thought you did the old ones.
The Old Oat Tea 7. (which usedta be done after Oat Tea 3)
>How many versions were there, anyway?
Of which level?
>I don't think I'll ever sort out what the OT levels were at different
>points in time.
They were changed a couple of times. Especially OT1. OT 2 and 3
have never changed. OT4-7 changed from the drills shit to the NOTs
shit.
>There seems to be 3 or more versions of them...hard for a green
>like me to grasp.
You betta off.
>You know, one day we need to make up an OT level FAQ with a good
>explanation of each level old and new and time frames and techniques.
>Just reading the bulletins doesn't tell much about how they are
>actually done, if there's a study course first, which are solo when,
>how long they take, etc.
>
>I reckon if I'm this confused over the OT levels, others must be goin'
>through hell trying to figure-figure them out. (little joke there.)
Mmm. Very little. :-)
>>>By request, I have included a glossary of terms this time around;
>>>those with a better grasp on the terminologyy than I are invited to
>>>correct my definitions; Dennis?
>>
>> How can I Martin? Ralph doesn't think I'm a good Cramming Officer
>> any more.
>
><smile> We have faith, Dennis; you're our cramming officer. Ralph
>is liable to think anything, but we don't care. :-)
I feel lighter somehow.
>I wasn't asking, BTW; this was from the original post way back when we
>were just kids in the park playing at being who was the biggest SP.
Nevermind then.
>>>BPC - By-Passed Charge; Charge is misemotion or upset; if it is
>>> restimulated, by not audited out, it is said to be By-Passed.
>>
>> "Mental energy or mass that has been restimulated in some way in an
>> individual and that is either partially or wholly unknown to that
>> individual and so is capable of effecting him adversely." - Scienotek
>> Dictionary
>>
>>>F/N - Floating Needle; a rythmic swing of the needle back and forth;
>>
>> ... at a slow even pace ...
>>
>>> said to indicate the end of a process on the E-meter.
>>
>>>GPM - Goals Problem Mass; a mass said to build up as one is thwarted
>>> by a problem on the way to a goal.
>>
>> "The problem created by two or more opposing ideas which being
>> opposed, balanced and unresolved, make a mass. It's a mental energy
>> mass. Items (valences) in opposition to each other." - Tek Dict.
>> [mostly the term was used in relation to implants]
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>
>A bit late, but hey! :-)
>
>One of these days, I'm doing a revision of the terminology list; I'll
>just save these precious droppings from the phatman via your cleansing
>self til then, OK?
S'okay.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
38. How Can a Thetan Distinguish "Truth" from Imagination? (Brett Achorn)
On 6 Aug 1996 16:18:03 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
achorn@gradin.cis.upenn.edu (Brett Achorn):
>If thetans mock up MEST, and memories have mass, what keeps a thetan from
> a) making up memories in another thetan or itself
It's done all the time by Body Thetans. The 'you' thinks the things
he remembers are ~his~ memories, but it's really his buddy thetans
thinking their memories at him.
> b) removing its own
They are on automatic and the mark has forgotten he is doing it.
(creating the masses)
>Seeing as how identity = memory,
Huh? Explain.
You mean that one's sense of identity is a memory?
>especially with the past life philosophy,
Oh, who one ~was~ kinda identity.
>this might be a problem for LRon. How can thetans hold on to anything unless
>they're remembering to remember things?
By setting up automaticities. Things that do it for him that he can
forget about.
>How could they tell apart what's true from what's made up,
That's the point: IT DON'T MATTER!
>since thetans seem to be able to do anything?
In theory.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
39. Are BTs Implanted with Incidents I and II? (Keith Cochran)
On 24 Aug 1996 07:52:04 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
janda@netcom.com (Keith A. Cochran):
>Question for Dennis: The phrase "can be made to run Incident1&2". Does
>that mean that there are BT's that don't have those implants?
No. All BTs and clusters do.
>How, then, did they become degraded enough to become BT's?
Some cannot be made to run on incidents. They are too degraded or
they think they are dead. So they will not move on their own little
time tracks.
>(I know, I know, they didn't because BT's don't exist. From the Scumatology
>perspective, how did this happen?)
They got too socked in to audit on Incident 1 & 2. They need waking
up. That's what NOTs (Oat Tea Levels 4-7) does. Wakes them up and
blows them by 'valence teknique'.
>Um, somewhere in NOTS? From the phrasing, I would think it's from the
>beginning, because it's explaining why they are doing _another_
>bait-and-switch on the mark. Right after this it tells how to explain
>it to the mark, correct?
It's from NOTs Series 1.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
40. Can Exorcism of BTs Cure, Say, Kidney Disease? (Mike O'Connor)
On 25 Aug 1996 17:39:03 -0700, inForm@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich) wrote:
lepton@panix.com (Mike O'Connor):
seekon@ix.netcom.com (h3):
>> >in which case what reason is there to wake [body thetans] up?
YHN:
>> Call them back from the grave, more accurately. They do not think
>> they are alive. These bts think they are stuff (mest), or just
>> concepts of unexistence.
Mike:
>My understanding is some body thetans (BTs) may think they are parts
>of you - your arm, your kidney...
Right.
>According to cult teachings, does a BT that thinks it is your kidney
>(or a kidney disease) affect your real kidney?
Of course. It's the basis of psychosomatic illness.
>Can such BTs cause a physical disease in your kidney?
Yes.
>Will making these BTs blow cure the disease in your kidney?
If you blow enough of them, supposedly.
"We can cure illness. We just can't ~say~ we can." - Elrong on XDn
Tape 2. [2nd tape on the Expanded Dianetics Course. -- editor]
>Finally, is every disease of a kidney caused by BTs?
No. Some are caused by clusters.
"The reactive mind is made up of BTs and clusters." - Elrong on
L12 tape.
>L. Ron Hubbard, dead founder of the thriving cult of greed and power
>seems to indicate this in NOTs 34, "THE SEQUENCE FOR HANDLING A
>PHYSICAL CONDITION".
>
>NOTs 34 says that a physical condition such as a stomach poisoning
>can be handled like this - I'm not quoting here:
>
>* Find BTs who think they are poison and audit them until they blow.
>
>* Then find BTs who think they are the part of your body affected by
>the poison (stomach) and make them blow.
>
>* After this, you audit and cause to blow the BTs which are thinking
>your body part is sick ("sick stomach" BTs.)
>
>* Next, you find BTs which think they are "cures for illness" and get
>them to blow - I don't really understand this step, wouldn't those be
>"good" BTs?
The BTs copied cures. They are confused. Their 'mental mass'
impinges on the body and causes illness and somatics.
>* Anyway, then you get rid of BTs which protest cures for illness.
>
>* Then you get rid of more BTs who think they are the stomach, since
>blowing all those other guys will uncover new BTs.
>
>* Then you get rid of more BTs who think they are poison who have
>engrams n' stuff about the stomach.
>
>* Finally, all this sickness seems to foster a cluster-making
>ability, so you do some more auditing and blowing for that.
>
>NOTs 34 seems to say, if you are poisoned, this sequence for handling
>a physical condition will take care of the problem - though I think I
>might be dead (and dead broke) by the time I did all that
>auditing. Poison is an actual example given, with dust, paint fumes,
>and bad food as other specific examples of physical conditions this
>auditing will handle. Metered auditing, using the meter to find the
>BTs causing the condition, is essential to the process.
Right.
>Do cult teachings say that all diseases are caused by BTs, and that
>by blowing the BTs using metered auditing, you will cure the disease
>- if you follow instructions exactly and blow ALL the proper BTs? Or
>are just SOME diseases caused by BTs?
It is not specific. You just keep finding and exorcising buddy
thetans until the mark stops complaining, runs out of money or dies.
>If I'm poisoned, should I run to a doctor or to an auditor?
911.
>Perhaps some people have a copy of NOTs 34 and can follow along. It
>doesn't seem to be hard to find these days. While perusing NOTs,
>check out number 50 as well, which seems to show how to cure people
>having problems with drug abuse.
Right.
>By the way the cult is specifically prohibited from claiming the
>E-Meter can be used as a diagnostic tool to cure disease. They can't
>say anything about the meter other than that it is a religous
>artifact. To do otherwise breaks federal law and court
>directives. -Mike
"We can cure illness. We just can't ~say~ we can." - Elrong on
XDn Tape 2.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *